Thursday, April 17, 2008

The Other Sovereign Grace Uncensored Has a New Look


I haven't posted for a bit. The other Sovereign Grace Uncensored has a new look.

They have a new address and in addition to blogs where you can leave comments there is a forum set up by various topics and threads. This makes much easier viewing.

The address for this locations is: (blog) (forum)

I would encourage you to go by and take a look at this new location.

Numerous topics have been discussed including:

New postsGeneral Discussion

New postsTell Your Story

New postsDoctrinal Issues

No new postsWhat's New At SGM?

New postsRandom Comment of the Day

New postsRecommended Reading

No new postsCourtship

New postsJust for laughs

New postsFor Wikipedia


Monday, March 3, 2008

Did Sovereign Grace Ministries Forget or Just Rewrite Larry Tomczak's Involvement

This is another summary of the following blog:

Sovereign Grace Uncensored

I am not a moderator or owner of the other blog. I am just summarizing some highlights here.

As most people know, Larry Tomczak was a co founder along with C.J. Mahaney of both Covenant Life Church and what would later be called Sovereign Grace Ministries. People that are involved with the history know that Tomczak actually mentored C.J. Mahaney and helped him grow spiritually.

Why he left the mininistry is debatable. Mahaney would tell you that it was over how he handled his family and "pride" issues. According to books written by Larry Tomczak, he left over another reason (see below).

Despite the reason, if you search both Sovereign Grace's and Covenant Life Church's website you will not find any mention of Larry Tomczak in their history. That is something when this group owes much of its history to this man and his influence. Some of the entries in their websites leads one to believe that Mahaney was the original pastor and original leader of the original group both men lead called TAG:

In 1974, Gary became a staff member at TAG, a ministry in Washington, D.C., led by C. J.

C.J. has served as Senior Pastor of Covenant Life Church since its inception in 1977. In a special service on Sept. 19, 2004, he passed the senior pastor baton to Joshua Harris.

What Sovereign Grace Ministries states there certainly borders on deception.

Here is what Tomczak has written about why he left the group that was to become Sovereign Grace:

The division between Tomczak and Mahaney, although not referred to explicitly in his book What do you believe about how people get saved? (1998), which seeks to counter the Calvinistic view of the way to salvation, nonetheless is hinted at.

Here is a quote from Larry’s book, Reckless Abandon (2002 pg. 15):

Doris and I, along with one of our teenagers, were threatened in various ways if we did not cooperate with the ministry that we were leaving. We were encountering a spirit of control. We were shunned. A letter was circulated in an attempt to discredit me and to distort the events surrounding my departure. Our own family members were divided. We felt helpless, abandoned and, for the most part, alone. Our experience was very painful. It seemed like some unbelievable nightmare. ….The psalmist records,….”If an enemy were insulting me, I could endure it; if a foe were raising himself against me, I could hide from him. But it is you, a man like myself, my companion, my close friend, with whom I once enjoyed sweet fellowship as we walked with the throng at the house of God” Ps. 55:12-14

This is all something to think about.

Friday, February 29, 2008

An Account of One Person Leaving

This item was shared on the other SG Uncensored blog. I am not the owner or a moderator of the other blog:

Here is one person's account of his leaving a Sovereign Grace Ministry Church:


Friday, February 22, 2008

An Obedience Pyramid Structure?

You might want to check out a blog with a similar title:

Sovereign Grace Uncensored

Note: I am NOT the owner or a moderator of the other blog. This other blog has a considerable number of posts and comments about Sovereign Grace from former members and their experiences with the organization.

As promised before, I am going to try and summarize some of the points brought up on the above blog about Sovereign Grace Ministries. So here goes.

One point brought up on the blog is that people in Sovereign Grace Ministries get promoted based primarily on how well they submit to authority above them. One person called this a "pyramid structure." Stating this another way, one becomes a member based on how submissive they are to their care group leader and pastor(s). The pastors are selected from the care group leaders who are the most submissive to their pastors and those above them.

This type of system can have drawbacks. One person put it this way, "
In a pyramid structure, leaders come into their leadership role based upon their own level of submission to the leaders over them. And as you get higher in the leadership, there are fewer and fewer people to answer to…until you get to the top, where perhaps one or just a few (usually) men have the final say."

Another problem is that it can tend to places in leadership people that don't question. It can lead to a culture that learns to not question what comes down from on top. If you want to be promoted and not lose your position that make sure you "tow" the party line. Even if something comes down that doesn't seem right or agree with God's word, there will be a tendency to not question it in this type of culture.

This is certainly something to think about.

Saturday, January 26, 2008

Sovereign Grace Ministries Criticism: Another Similar Blog

You might want to check out a blog with a similar url:

Sovereign Grace Uncensored

I may eventually post on here a summary of what was discussed on this other blog. I am NOT the owner or a moderator of the other blog.